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03/17/2010 (1:01 am)

License questions

Filed under: nappedeptrole.com edit
  • Hi,

    I am interested in the Family License solution. From the Agnitum web site I have learnt, that it allows an installation on up to 5 computers belonging to the user or his family members. That's a very loose definition, and I would like to learn the precise text of the license agreement, before I eventually buy this license (ANY family members, or only the closest kins, what about the location of the computers: do they have to be in the same flat or not necessarily, etc.)

    Unfortunately, I was unable to get the license text neither directly from Agnitum (the sales department seems to be deaf), nor from the Polish reseller - Dagma company.

    If on this forum there are users having the Family License, please send me the text of the License agreement, if possible, so I can see, what are the full conditions of using this kind of license.

    Second question: In various threads I have seen, that the users mentionned, that they have a LIFETIME key. Does it mean, that such an option exists? I did not found it on Agnitum web pages - only the one year license with the possibility to purchase the prolongations for another year. Please give me more details on this option.

    Best regards,
    TLis


  • Vagueness can sometimes be a good thing. I would say that you have made an excellent good faith effort to determine the terms. As long as you have documentation that you have made a legal purchase I would not expect Agnitum to send the PC police to the homes of your relatives.


  • Thanks, Paranoid2000 for your reply. I know, that the phrase you have quoted literally does not impose strong restrictions, but I am already accustomed to find more of them in the actual text of the license agreement (usually in fine print, so it is easy to overlook :) )

    Sometimes, it is only a matter of definitions, usually found at the beginning of the document, where Agnitum could define the meaning of the words "family members", etc., that could be "slightly" different from how you understand these terms in the common language, especially if the meaning of the given term could be interpreted in many ways. Lawyers love such surprises :cool:

    Is your license the Family License? If so, could you send your file license.txt to me by mail, so I can study it? Please ...

    TLis


  • I have just obtained a reply from Agnitum. Let me quote a fragment:

    Agnitum: This license allows usage simultaneously on up to 5 computers in one physical location (house, flat, apartment) by relatives NOT for business purpose.

    Me: Thank you, for your reply. Could you, please, send me the LICENSE TEXTfor the FAMILY LICENSE product, as I have requested?

    Agnitum: We do not have official text of Family license. All terms of usage are the same as in the License Agreement for single license except the terms I sent in the previous e-mail. Please describe your situation and we'll advise you what license to buy.

    They do not have the text of the Family license. My fears have been confirmed ...


  • Welcome to the forums TLis,

    The phrase "Can be installed on up to five computers owned by user and/or his family members." only suggests a restriction on numbers, not on location or kinship. However my licence.txt file does not even mention "family" so I can't provide a definitive answer.

    Lifetime licences were given to those who purchased Outpost before it was publicly released (as 1.0), they are not available for purchase now. However the licence period only applies to receiving free upgrades - you can continue using Outpost itself indefinitely thereafter (downloading a fresh copy just before licence expiry to ensure you have the most recent installer is a good idea though). You can also get a discount on licence renewal should you wish to upgrade after the licence has expired.


  • Once the cat has escaped from the bag its, well, you know, out. Now, you know for sure. That's what you wanted. You can no longer plead ignorance. You caused the maybe to disappear
    Right! That's why I decided not to try to buy Family License "by ignorance". Doing so would add even more mess to the matter.


  • I have a family license :D , and I have Outpost installed on ... one computer lol.. :eek:

    Oh well it's the thought that counts.

    I think the only way I can actually tell is by looking at the Outpost registration in the my internet window , and there it says type of license : family.

    Actually I just checked my registration code and it has this along with it :


    Contents:

    B. Details for product delivery for Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro
    (Family License)

    The product is licensed to "someone very lucky". :D

    You will find the license code for the product "Agnitum Outpost
    Firewall
    Pro (Family License)" below. You will need the license code to
    finish the
    process and activate the product. The software publisher
    provides the
    license code and the following text which might be written in a
    different
    language.

    1 x Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro (Family License)


    Is this any help ?


  • Anyway I think the BSA etc. have better things to do than hunt for users like you.
    Yes, I hope so :)
    Anyway, Agnitum Support Team confirmed, that the Family License is unsuitable for my situation. That's a pity, since it would be really a good deal!

    Maybe even I could buy this license, and use it in my multiple locations environment, taking advantage of the fact, that this restriction was not known officially at the time of the purchase, and Agnitum allowed to continue the use of this product in such situation (as they have replied to Paranoid2000), but who knows, when they will change their mind :(
    So, probably, I will have to choose maybe one full version (single user), and the rest will be free versions (Outpost, or maybe Kerio or Sygate :rolleyes: ). Apart from Component control I think I will find most of the privacy control features in Firefox and Thunderbird ...

    Sad and a bit frustrated
    TLis


  • Here's the reply:

    "This license allows usage simultaneously on up to 5 computers in one physical location (house, flat, apartment) by relatives NOT for business purpose."

    Agnitum will update their website to give a clearer explanation of the family licence. However those who have purchased this licence for multiple locations or for business use in the belief that they were entitled to do so, may continue using the licence in this way.


  • I have posted a question to Agnitum about this - if I get a reply, I will supply the details here.


  • Right! That's why this option sounds so interesting :)

    I cannot, however, understand the attitude of Agnitum (and his Polish reseller - Dagma). They do not make available the license text on their web site (at least to my knowledge), and Agnitum and Dagma do not reply to my multiple e-mail inquiries for the text of the license agreement. To be honest, Dagma replied me, providing the text of the standard single-installation license. When I have proven them, that this cannot be the right license for the Family License option, I did not receive any further reply.

    How can they sell their software without the proper license?

    Aren't there in this forum any users having purchased the Family License?

    TLis


  • The only info on the site is, as you say...

    * - Can be installed on up to five computers owned by user and/or his family members.
    (interestingly, that DOESN'T specify that they must be in the same location) - it is very ambiguous, as taking a truly literal interpretation of that statement, it would cover family members of unspecified relationship, elsewhere, but not systems used by flatmates.

    Since this is effectively a 5 user licence, for the price of two, and cheaper than both business or educational, you can expect some limitations.


  • Thank you, Paranoid2000. So the location is another important factor (unfortunately this invalidates my plans to acquire this license).

    I have obtained (finally!) a similar answer from Agnitum. Despite my request to obtain the LICENSE TEXT, THEY STILL HAVE NOT SENT ME THE LICENSE!!!

    So, does the Family license agreement exist, or not? Don't you think it is awkward and maybe even illegal to sell the software without the proper license. In my country, the police can verify the legal status of the software, that you are using, and no software can be used legally without the license, so I would be fined just because Agnitum is unable to provide a license to me.

    I have asked one friend, who has purchased the Family License to send me her license, and she did not found it!!! Apparently Agnitum sells the Family License without the proper license agreement.

    Thank you all for contributing to this thread - I know at least, that the Family license is not suitable for the situation, where the family members do not live at the same physical location :mad: although I can only rely on the word from Agnitum's support people, not on the license agreement


  • However those who have purchased this licence for multiple locations or for business use in the belief that they were entitled to do so, may continue using the licence in this way.
    So, maybe it is yet the time to buy this license, and benefit from this statement (in my case, there are multiple locations) :)


  • There should be a file license.txt in the Outpost program folder which contains the licence terms - however her copy may simply mirror the single user licence.
    That was the case, indeed. She has found only the single user license agreement, which is COMPLETELY NOT SUITABLE for Family License case, where the user is entitled to copy and install the software on up to 5 computers, fulfilling all other Agnitum restrictions.

    I can say, she is lucky, that she does not live in Poland :) Maybe we should ask Agnitum explicitely: "Which license agreement governs the relation between Agnitum and the user having purchased the Family License? Surely, not the one, that can be found in the program's folder. So, on which legal basis such a user is legally using the software?"


  • Well, I don't live in Poland so I can't say. I suppose you want a paper document that says you have such a license rather what Moore posted. However, your software will say that you have a family license. If that's not good enough then buy the single license, which by the way you won't have a paper document to show either. I'm not sure that I could definitively prove that I legally acquired a lifetime license. Which I did by the way. But if I was challenged the only thing I have is an email from Agnitum with my license key that hopefully I have not deleted. Purchasing items on the Internet is a new way of doing business.

    I hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.


  • Once the cat has escaped from the bag its, well, you know, out. Now, you know for sure. That's what you wanted. You can no longer plead ignorance. You caused the maybe to disappear.

    Best of luck with your purchases.


  • As long as you have documentation that you have made a legal purchase I would not expect Agnitum to send the PC police to the homes of your relatives.
    The problem is, that it is not Agnitum, that would send the police to my home or of my relatives. It is BSA, and police by itself, that sometimes makes the visit just to verify the software status. Of course, usually they won't do it without any suspicion, but nevertheless, in the last months we have had news of such visits in other cities.
    Summing up, if police comes to me (for any reason, not specifically related to software), they can verify the software, and seeing the attached license (single-user), they would at least request from me the proper (Family) license, because this one is not the right one. I WOULD BE THEN UNABLE TO PRESENT SUCH A LICENSE, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST! So, they will act upon the only license found - the single user license, and fine me.

    Moore: Thank you for this information. This is a proove, that you have the Family License, but you are unable to show, which rights and what restrictions apply to you. This is a kind of evidence, but at least questionnable, and not fullproof, if you want to avoid any problems with the potential license verification.


  • Moore: Thank you for this information. This is a proove, that you have the Family License, but you are unable to show, which rights and what restrictions apply to you. This is a kind of evidence, but at least questionnable, and not fullproof, if you want to avoid any problems with the potential license verification.

    In addition to Moores suggestions why not just save/print a copy of the payment screen when you purchase your family license.

    Anyway I think the BSA etc. have better things to do than hunt for users like you.


  • I have asked one friend, who has purchased the Family License to send me her license, and she did not found it!!! Apparently Agnitum sells the Family License without the proper license agreement.There should be a file license.txt in the Outpost program folder which contains the licence terms - however her copy may simply mirror the single user licence.







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